Can books teach us anything about our leaders today?
*Argue which tragic elements from FEED and Oedipus Rex are displayed.
*You may wish to compare and to contrast the 2 books you have read (or should now be reading) using Oedipus as the "perfect" tragedy.
*What new information have you learned about Sophocles or about tragedy from the REQUIRED database search? Copy/paste this to the end of your blog posting
*You may incorporate feminism, historical elements, comparison to Shakespearian tragedies, hubris, hamartia, catharsis, or any other tragic elements. You may also argue that your book has no tragic elements, but be careful to back up with quotes/evidence.
*We should have most of Oedipus covered by now as well, but if we did not finish in class, add in content we have covered most recently.
You may discuss any beginning segments of your new novel, but do not spoil the end of the book (yet). If you need more tragedy elements, please consult our notes, Sophocles notes, and/or the "pure" definition by Aristotle in these 2 websites here and here.
Funny pun names based on any of the literature--encouraged :)
For full credit, you MUST have quotations as support of your points from both texts, you MUST show reading and avoid online summary info, you MUST respond to a minimum of 2 posts. Points will be deducted for those students who wait until the last 12-24 hours, for spelling problems, repeating information already stated, confusing responses, attacking classmates verbally, simply agreeing without saying much of anything, or off-topic commentary.
------APA documentation must be used----
DATABASES REQUIRED FOR THIS BLOG, but your argument will be judged harshly, so be prepared to defend yourself!
**This blog will end at 9 a.m. on 10/23. Remember that starting on the last 12-24 hours prior will result in loss of points since your discussion will be limited.
A tragic element often used is a person with a high position falling. In Oedipus, we see the King of Thebes, Oedipus. He's a respected man after saving their city from the sphinx "You came and by your coming saved out city, freed us form tribute which we paid of old to the Sphinx..."(Oedipus the King, lines 35-37). We also see by now that Oedipus has almost reached the point of falling, after learning of his true heritage that he had killed his father and married his mother after he was saved by the herdsman. "Look old man, here he is- here's the man who was that child!" (Oedipus the King, lines 1145-1146). We also see a bad omen, as a pestilence has spread across the city and people are dying. "a deadly pestilence, is on our town,"(Oedipus the King, line 29). Feed displays both of these as well. But, in feed there is not a single person with a high position, it is the United States with a high position. "We are a nation of dreams. We are seers. We are wizards.."(Feed, pg. 149). But, we know that this is only temporary as the book is a tragedy and that the country is on the decline. We see this evident in the U.S.'s annexation of the moon and the old man talking about when the forests died. "I remember seeing hawks perched on the street lamps, during those last days of American forests," (Feed, pg.94). "In other news, protests continued today against the American annexation of the moon,"(Feed, pg.71) The bad omen we see in feed are the Lesions on people's bodies that they seem to be used to at the start of the book."We had the lesions that people were getting, and our right then were red and kind of wet-looking,"(Feed, pg.11). In Feed, the United States seems to exude hubris. The U.S. is so full of pride that they have gone blind to things like the lesions and the environmental disasters. Such is evident when they called themselves seers, wizards, and dreams in the quote from pg. 149.
ReplyDeleteI’d also like to bring up the stark difference between the characters in Native son and Feed. It’s a good glimpse into both sides and how they both respond to society dictating how to live their lives. Both were heavily influenced by their society in a negative way.
In an observation of Sophocles’ Trachiniae, the author notes how Sophocles can use the tragic elements to create completely different stories using the same elements. For example, the use of oracles to tell the future.
link: https://muse-jhu-edu.snc.idm.oclc.org/article/1078
I used the project muse database I found.
I haven't gotten as far in FEED as your cites but from what I do have, I can absolutely agree with your idea that it is America as a whole that is falling from its seat of power just as Oedipus is. Lesions being a bad omen is also something I wholeheartedly agree on though the peoples current lack of fear over them is concerning. Your comparison to your other book is also awesome.
DeleteI am not as far as you are in feed but I can also see that from what I read America for sure is in the drivers seat and that there is bound to be a tragedy in the near future. I personally do not see how the lesions is a bad omen, maybe once I read more I will understand what you mean.
DeleteOedipus is riddled with tragic elements but a couple stand out to me above the others. First Oedipus has high status being the king and ruler of Thebes, you have to start high in order to fall far and that is exactly what has been set up in Oedipus Rex. He has been placed very high societally so he can take a pitfall into despair. Another predominant tragic element in Oedipus is Oedipus’ fatal flaw, his temper. When faced with adversity the man is much more likely to get angry and confront the situation with anger and demands than level-headed conversation and compromise. One example of this is when Teiresias is holding out on Oedipus the information that he is the true murder of king Lauis Oedipus got infuriated even though Teiresias was just trying to protect him from an unfortunate truth. After just a short time of not being told that he is the murderer that he seeks Oedipus says “You would provoke a stone! Tell us, you villain, tell us and do not stand there quietly unmoved and balking at the issue” (Sophocles, 430 b.c.). To cement the tough that Oedipus’s temper is a large flaw the man who can see into the future Teiresias declared “You blame my temper but you do not see your own that lives within you; it is me you chide” (Sophocles, 430 b.c.). Another example when he came to a fork in the road where king Laius hit Oedipus in the head with a two pronged goad and his retaliatory decision was the murder of Lauis and all his men, sparing one servant. On this occasion his temper did not cause his fall from grace, however, when you have a loose cannon on the ship it is likely to sink. One other tragic element is the opening of the story with a bad omen. We the reader are brought into a Thebes riddled with black death. The pestilence is so severe the streets are riddled with sickly people and there is no relief in sight. Because I have not gotten that far into Feed there may be tragic elements that I have not seen yet but what I have found so far is the lesions Feed’s characters are experiencing appear to be comparable to Oedipus’s black death, or All My Sons apple tree. They all relate because it's what foreshadows later events in each story. While not everyone with the lesions in Feed seem to be all that upset with them it may be a stretch to call it a bad omen but that's what I take it as.
ReplyDeleteThe book Sophocles An Interpretation breaks down several aspects of Sophocles’s seven extant tragedies. In the Oedipus Rex section author R.P Winnington-Ingram had this to say “Those who consider that Sophocles was the prophet of sophrosune should contemplate a world of Creons and wonder whether it would be any place for a tragic poet. There are morals no doubt for those who have the skill to draw them, and there are tragic facts — such tragic facts as the innocence and guilt, the intelligence and blindness, the greatness and weakness, of Oedipus, ri Set [x€ xopeveiv; There was every reason”.(Winnington-Ingram, 1980). I highlighted this section because Winnington-Ingram points out traits that make the character’s circumstances tragic.
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=OPo8nVmC9LQC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=sophocles+an+interpretation&ots=lRpdEWxDvU&sig=lEPCnt1AtjGmu4w0Ozky1mfEb9Y#v=onepage&q=sophocles%20an%20interpretation&f=falseI used the Google Scholar link I found on our St. Norberts database page.
I strongly agree with you when you say that one of Oedipus' most tragic flaw is his temper. Especially when he kills his father. He didn't think before he acted and therefore he ended up killing his own father. If he would just calm down and talk, things wouldn't have gotten so out of hand and it is quite possible his father could still be alive.
DeleteI 100% agree with you when you say that one of Oedipus' main flaws is that is that he has a bad temper and cannot control it. When he kills his father you can see his temper and anger problems come out because he just acted out and did not think about his actions or realize that it was his father.
DeleteI completely agree with you that Oedipus' main flaw is that he has a bad temper that can cause him a lot of issues. When a king gets very frustrated and mad it can cause them to make bad decisions. When he killed his father he was so mad he was not thinking straight.
DeleteIn Oedipus we can see the tragic element of a reversal when Oedipus discovers that Polybus is not actually his father. The messenger comes from Corinth claiming that Polybus is dead. Jocasta then rejoices because the prophecy stating that Oedipus would murder his father had not come true, so she thinks. The messenger then claims that Polybus is not actually Oedipus' biological father. "Because Polybus was no kin to you in blood" (Sophocles' Oedipus the king, line 1017). Oedipus then gets upset, demanding that the messenger fetches the herdsman that had found him in the field. Oedipus threatens to kill the herdsmen if he does not tell him who his father really is. Oedipus is beginning to be very defensive, I predict this is going to cause him to fall from his high status as king.
ReplyDeleteIn the amount of feed I have read, one of the few tragic elements is the lesions that the group of kids have are examples of bad omens. Although most of them don't want them, there are a select few who do. One of the girls that Titus meets says " I want mine to go all the way around. I want it to be like a necklace, but right now it's just a torque"(Anderson, pg 23).
The leaders of Oedipus remind me a lot of the leaders today. Oedipus will stop at almost nothing to get the information he demands, this reminds me a lot of Donald Trump and other leaders. Grown men and woman yelling and insulting each other, being rude and immature at times, just to win a presidency.
This paper uses the myth of Oedipus to explore the question: how has the "king," ruling principle of our age, led us into our current crisis in which a pandemic is unfolding?
Link: http://web.a.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/detail/detail?vid=5&sid=4505c40b-5159-4ef7-b8e1-14b6d75aee34%40sdc-v-sessmgr01&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#AN=145431643&db=a9h
I used the Jung journal as a source
I have to disagree with you when you say the teenagers are a tragic flaw. Why? Simply because they are teenagers. They're still growing, and they're still learning. They live in this crazy world where wires literally stick out of their head; so forgive them for being a little crazy and "bad omen" like. If I lived in a world where I couldn't control my thoughts, I would be looking for absolutely anything to distract myself from real life. Wouldn't you?
DeleteI do agree that there is some reversal in Oedipus with the whole "father mother not father mother" ordeal. First they are his parents but they are not his parents by blood. And now he killed his father by blood and has been sleeping with his mother by blood. I would be a little messed up too.
DeleteAnd I technically agree that Lesions are a bad omen in FEED, I do not necessarily agree with your support. If someone wants it as a body decoration of sorts, like a tattoo, is it really a bad thing? They must be able to live fine with a Lesion then. And it almost seems like you are blaming the kids for the Lesions or that they are more the tragic element than the Lesions. And that's probably not something I totally agree with as they are more the tragic characters rather than the tragic elements or the bad omens.
While i do have to agree that the lesions are a bad omen, I would have liked to see more examples as to how what makes it seem bad. I would have said that it may be foreshadowing that the feeds are damaging their bodies and that this omen is meant to warn them of the dangers of abusing their bodies using technology.
DeleteI also agree with you that a reversal is a prominent element in Oedipus. In the start he leaves his family for fear of hurting his father and marrying his mother, only to in turn murder a stranger (who was somehow his real father) and marry a dead kings wife (who happens to be his real mother and the wife of the man he murdered somehow, like what?!?!) when he saves their kingdom. It is a lot of back and forth confusion for Oedipus which I believe in turn creates Oedipus' tragic flaw of his lack of anger management.
Oedipus Rex is a tragic play and coincidentaly is full of tragic elements. A common tragic element of Sophocles' plays is the influence of decisions. Oedipus, and all people of Thebes, are heavily influenced by their so called "Gods". They believe that the all knowing Gods know everyting in the past, present, and future. Towards the beginning Oedipus asks "Who is this man whose fate the God pronounces?" (line 102) while refering to Creon who allegedly spoke to the Gods. Creon replys "The God commanded clearly: let some one punish with force this dead man's murderers" (lines 106-107). From then on the goal of Oedipus and all other characters is simply to punish whoever murdered the previous King Lauis. They follow this "quote from the God" blindly with no evidence except one mans word. The heavy influence from up above is further proved by the empty beleif in oracles. An oracle comes in many forms but no matter the case is percieved as truth. When Teiresias is sent to Oedipus in order to deliver one of his oracles, Teiresias claims that Oedipus is the murderer of Lauis. He says "you are the murderer of the king whose murderer you seek" (lines 362-363). This drives Oedipus mad and he accuses his second hand man Creon of commiting the murder. The center idea of the play and the main tragic element is believeing whatever is told by the Gods and these Oracles. This concept of believing things with no proof is directly related to the characters in Feed. In the novel Feed, there seems to be some sort of implant in everyones body that constantly streams information, advertisments, and entertainment into peoples brains at all times. When refering to his feed coming back the narrator Titus says "and the feed was pouring in on us now, all of it, all of the feednet, and we could feel all of our favorites, and there were our files, and our m-chatlines" (Feed, pg 70). This constant data stream is information that the characters take in as truth without a second thought. In both Oedipus and Feed, the characters trust an outside source such as the Gods or whoever controls the Feed, to provide them with factual information.
ReplyDeleteThis piece highlights the belief in oracles:
Firstly, and perhaps most powerfully,
Sophocles shows us the instinctive human tendency to avert an unwelcome contingency. Note that this human instinct interacts with an
implicit belief in the truth and reliability of oracles. In Oedipus’ lineage
both aspects are important—his family has power, his father had a piety
of sorts, and both he and his father were men of decision and action.
When Laius and Jocasta hear the oracle that the child to be born to
them would kill his father, they do their utmost to prevent the dreaded
event by having the baby put to death. According to Jocasta’s own
version, as narrated to Oedipus (in an attempt to reassure him that
oracles and prophecies are not worth worrying about), it was Laius, who
“pierced his ankles / and by the hands of others cast him forth / upon
a pathless hillside” (lines 718–20). This was a single-minded action by a
man prone to decisive and deadly measures when required. Later in the
play, at the very climax of the revelation about Oedipus’ origins, we find
that Jocasta gave the baby to the herdsman “to make away with it . . .
through fear / of evil oracles” (lines 1173–77) so that Jocasta was
complicit in her husband’s action
http://web.b.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?vid=4&sid=e28176fc-c1bf-4146-af96-fac2e61e56fb%40sessionmgr101
DeleteI agree with you completely in saying that they follow the gods blindly. I also agree that the implants somewhat control the characters in the novel. These feeds can also be easily manipulated such as when the hacker taps into their feed and forces them to say and do whatever he commands.
DeleteWhen you say "the main tragic element is believeing whatever is told by the Gods and these Oracles." I disagree. While I do agree that could be considered a tragic element of the play I do not think it is the main tragic element. Not only does Oedipus deny his prophecy delivered by an oracle, there are tragic element with more prevalence. I think there are two in particular one being his tragic flaw and the other being the plot of the play itself.
DeleteI also talked about how there are a lot of influenced decisions in this story. I agree that one of the main tragic elements is influenced decisions. I agree with you when you say that they follow the gods blindly. I also think that Jocasta is a very influential character that influences Oedipus greatly.
Deletei also agree with you that in Oedipus the king they follow the gods. also agree with you about feed the implants influence what the kids do.
DeleteA tragic element in Oedipus is that the highest position that can be reached which in the play would be king and that person will eventually fall and not succeed. "For you came here to our Cadmeian city, and freed us from from the tribute we were paying to that cruel singer." (Oedipus, lines 40-42). That was when Oedipus was at the top and was confident with what he was doing. As we read in the play Oedipus gets angry and reaches his breaking point after realizing that he had killed his father when he was angry that he got hit over the head. When Oedipus is talking to the messenger about his fathers death he says, "For they foretold that I was going to murder my own father. But now he is dead and lies beneath the earth, and I am here." (Oedipus, 1146-1150). Oedipus is feeling guilty and is about to break, lose his mind and do something he is going to regret. Feed shows the same tragic element as Oedipus but the main thing that is controlling and will eventually not succeed would be the computer inside all of the kids's head. Once they get hacked and figure out about the real world and how everything is not all about computers they will figure out they will be better off without the computers in their heads. "It had been a day sense any of us had heard from feed. Our parents were probably already on the moon, and were coming to the hospital the next day."
ReplyDeleteOedipus, King of Thebes, is supported by his daughter (and half-sister) Antigone, as they walk though the plague-ravaged city. Oedipus became ruler after defeating the Sphinx, a creature with the head of a woman, the body of a lioness and the wings of an eagle.
link http://web.a.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/detail/detail?vid=3&sid=3d02caa1-9a72-49cb-8f7a-a7f54dcc049b%40sdc-v-sessmgr02&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#AN=137976470&db=a9h
I used the Academic Search Complete
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAlthough I agree with you on Oedipus I disagree with you on your opinion of feed. I think that the Feed kids are way too immersed in their feed to ever want to live without it. Excluding, Violet who had already lived without one and would die with it.
Delete(Previous reply deleted due to grammatical errors)
I agree with how Oedipus has the highest position and how he ultimately doesn't succeed. But what I have read of Feed I don't have information myself to agree or disagree.
DeleteTragic plays can often be identified by the bad omen presented in the beginning scenes. For Oedipus the King by Sophocles, this means the mysterious pestilence, or plague, that haunts the land. Its tragic-ness is in the fact that woman are unable to children while cattle and people alike are dropping like flies. "A blight is on the cattle in the fields, a blight is on the woman that no children are born to them... a deadly pestilence, is our town". (Sophocles, lines 25-30 420 BCE) Oedipus also agrees that this is a bad omen when he explains that it is caused by the death of their prior king, Laius. Death is never a good omen and often implies that something worse is yet to come. Exampled through All My Sons when the a son is said to be dead in the opening scenes and later, his father kills himself over it.
ReplyDeleteBack to Oedipus, we have also just understood that Oedipus has, in fact, fulfilled the prophecy by Teiresias that he would kill his father and sleep with his mother. (Sophocles, lines 254-259, 420 BCE)
The tragic element of a bad omen in the opening scenes is a tragic theme that Oedipus the King by Sophocles may also share with FEED by M. T. Anderson. In the world of FEED, each person seems to live in a place solely dependent on this futuristic concept of being connected to a social media hub that acts like real Virtual Realty. The Pestilence that I then speak of is what they call a Lesion. The Lesion seems to start in one place and spread larger to cover more body area as time passes. (Anderson, pg21) Such a thing consists of a large portion of excess or visibly tissue that oozes or "cries". The people, however, do not seem to be as worried as those in Oedipus of this pestilence. But the fact that the Lesion's seem to be coming from an unverified source, I would like to believe that they are the bad omen like the plague is for Oedipus. I also speculate that Lesions will be the gateway to a possible breach in their normal society of relying on the FEED.
Furthermore, this article enforces the idea of a plague being a bad omen as it reads "The epidemic, in fact, is mostly a matter that serves the theatrical economy by forming a background for the evolution of the plot." (2012) Its saying that a pestilence is setting the story for a rapidly advancing plot line. Meaning that both FEED and Oedipus beginning with epidemics may lead them to share in the same plots with similar or matching tragic elements.
Kousoulis, A. A., Economopoulos, K. P., Poulakou-Rebelakou, E., Androutsos, G., & Tsiodras, S. (2012). The Plague of Thebes, a Historical Epidemic in Sophocles’ Oedipus Rex. Emerging Infectious Diseases, 18(1), 153–157. https://doi-org.snc.idm.oclc.org/10.3201/eid1801.AD1801
Austin I agree with the bad omen of these gnarly lessions being a tragic element in Feed. I am thinking the lesions will be reavaled later in a much larger scale than we see right now. The lesions are brushed off as not much to worry about and even commented on as a normal thing. Titus says "there are different kinds of lesions, I mean, there are lesions and lesions, but somehow our lesions, in this case, seemed like kid stuff."(Anderson, 2002, pg 11). This seems to suggest that every man woman and child has these lesions just in varying degrees. What is unknown is the cause of the lesions and thats what I think is going to be tied into the mysterious feed.
DeleteIn the play Oedipus The King, many elements make this a tragedy. One, in particular, is the guilt Oedipus has after finding out the truth. He has spent so much time trying to avoid the prophecy to find out it already had come true. Trying to be a good leader, Oedipus has uncovered the truth about himself, which will undoubtedly encounter more tragic elements. When Oedipus found out the awful truth, he could have tried to hide it, but him, being the king he is wanted to get what he deserved even though the universe had only brought him pain and suffering, he was willing to do what was right even when his wife did not want him to find out the truth. “Break out what you will! I at least shall be willing to see my ancestry, though humble. Perhaps she is ashamed of my low birth, for she has all a women’s high-flown pride. But I account myself a child of Fortune, beneficent Fortune, and I shall not be dishonored. She’s the mother from whom I spring; the months, my brothers, marked me, now as small, and now again as mighty. Such is my breeding, and I shall never prove so false to it, as not to find the secret of my birth.” (Sophocles’ Oedipus The king, lines 1077-1086) "By the end of the play, our attention has shifted: we are no longer interested in the fate of Thebes, but in the fate of “Oedipus, whose brilliance and tenacity have brought about his ruin. The ironic truth of Oedipus' concern that "the slayer of Laius might wish to take vengeance on me" has been revealed, in a way that he could not possibly have anticipated.”(Greenberg, 2012)
ReplyDeleteIn the novel Feed, there does not seem to be any significant tragic elements so far. I have noticed the only thing is the way Titus needs to find someone to “hook up” with. I think this could become a tragic element because his need for a girl could lead him down a destructive path. On page 13, Titus sees a girl, and after he has spotted her, the next pages end up being a lot about this girl he has started obsessing over. “There was a valve that led into the food bar. She was in the valve. She had her crash helmet under her arm. She has this short blond hair. Her face, it wasn’t the way-i guess it wasn't just the way it looked like, but also how she was standing. With her arm. I just stared at her.”(Feed, page 13)
My database- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25922923/
My article- https://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2237-60892012000200003&lng=en&tlng=en
I do not agree with you that there are no tragic elements in Feed. They are quite obscure and not necessarily as obvious as the elements in Oedipus, but they are there. An example of one would be the lesions being a sign of a bad omen, or their lack of/disappearing intelligence being a sign of a fall from status possibly. But I do agree that Titus' behaviour (mostly toward/about women and/or alcohol) could lead him down a destructive path
DeleteI also do not agree that there is no tragic elements in feed. All of the characters are so concerned about what is in the feed that they ignore the health of themselves. Lesions keep appearing on people and are growing. Lesions are defiantly I sign that something isn't right in this world. with the ignorance to taking after themselves and the lack of education the whole society is ignorant and needs to learn values.
DeleteI don't agree with you in that feed has no tragic elements. The lesions seem to be a foreshadowing tragic element, the high status of the U.S. seems to be one, and the character's hubris is another. They think that their country cannot fall or do things not in the people's interest so this is something that leads the story to be tragic.
DeleteI disagree about how his guilt and trying to be a good leader uncovered the truth. I believe his anger which one one of his main fatal flaws found out the truth. Also I disagree with you there are tragic elements in Feed the characters have lesions on them which I think will be a fatal flaw.
DeleteIn "Oedipus the King," there are many tragic elements throughout the storyline, but one element I found throughout the play was influenced decisions. The characters seem to allow others to decide what will happen in the future and base the rest of their lives off of that. A main circumstance where a character's choices or decisions are being influenced is with oracles. An example of one way oracles created this tragic element is when Oedipus discovered that he was destined to murder his father and marry his mother, “But he foretold other and desperate horrors to befall me, that I was fated to lie with my mother, and show to daylight an accursed breed which men would not endure, and I was doomed to be the murderer of the father that begot me.” (Sophocles, Lines 791-795) This prophecy influenced Oedipus to leave his family at once, in attempts to stop it from coming true, “When I heard this I fled” (Sophocles, Line 796). I think that allowing the oracles to influence his life will continue to lead to more tragedy and confusion for Oedipus.
ReplyDeleteWhile searching through databases, I found a journal article about Oedipus’ attempt at defying the gods. The article states that Oedipus was destined to fulfill the prophecy given to him. Gods are all-knowing and extremely powerful, meaning that a prophecy is not going to be some made up guess, it is a reflection of what the gods have found to already be true. In fact, the oracle who told Oedipus his fate would have known that he would try to run from it already, showing that allowing oracles to pull you away from your life and family, as it did to Oedipus, would be unnecessary because you cannot outrun fate.
In the beginning sections of “Feed” there are not many tragic elements that directly present themselves as they do in Oedipus, you have to think and reflect on them before you determine if it really is considered tragic. From what I have read, I have learned that it takes place in a dystopian world where everyone has what is called a feed (hence the name of the book) which is a sort of unseeable, all-knowing internet inserted in their brains, taking away the need for rigorous schooling, writing, or reading. I believe a tragic element in the book would be a sort of fall from status. Throughout the story, it is obvious that without the feed people no longer have any sense of what to do, and since having the feed social capacity of many is much less than it was before. This lack of social skills is proven when the children are all in a sort of hospital after a hacker attacked their feeds. The father of Titus, the character narrating the storyline, comes to the hospital and walks into their room, “He just stood there staring at me for a few seconds, and I was like, ‘What? What?’ He seemed surprised, and then blinked. He said, “Oh sh*t. Yeah, I forgot no M-chat. Just talking.” (Feed, Page 55). This shows just how bad normal social communication is getting, it is at the point that people standing in a room together do not even talk, they text each other. I believe that this shows a fall from power because America and humans in general are known for our abilities to continue expanding our knowledge and growing, but it seems to me that at the rate they are going the knowledge they could be retaining by learning is not necessary because they can search everything on their feeds in the blink of an eye. This is tragic because instead of the world advancing and growing they are now stuck at a stand-still awaiting the world to wake up and realize they are frying their brains.
References:
Silberman, Lauren. “God and Man in ‘Oedipus Rex.’” College Literature,
vol. 13, no. 3, 1986, pp. 292–299. JSTOR,
www.jstor.org/stable/25111712.
Ainsley, I agree with what you said about Feed. As I'm reading the story, it seems that all they care about is their feed. They keep getting annoyed by adds or anything that is out of their control. They can private chat with each other if they are standing right next to each other. I feel like the fall will make the characters realize there are more important things than the feeds. They put their own health on the line to stay in that world. The lesions appear on their bodies and they don't question what they are or why they are there.
DeleteI agree with you that readers have to think about Feed’s tragedies because they are not as blunt. In Oedipus the king, you have an idea of the tragedies before they even happen, and in feed, you can also conclude what could happen in the future. I also believe that Feed will have a fall in social status, just like in Oedipus.
Deletei agree when you say there is influenced decisions on both Oedipus and feed. In Oedipus the gods influence there decisions and in feed well the feed influences the kids.
DeleteIn the story Oedipus the King, there are many tragic events that take place. One that stands out to me is Oedipus’s hubris pride. Throughout the whole story so far, Bad events have been happening either to thebes or to Oedipus himself. He is the new king and a plague has already broken out in thebes, Oedipus asks how to solve the problem and Tyresius tells him he has a bad fate. This is early on in the story but Oedipus doesn’t listen to what he says and believes he is right. Oedipus is told that his “father” Phoebus had died by a messenger, Oedipus is mourning when he finds out that Phoebus has never been his actual father the whole time. He is ignorant and says “ O no! Once on a time Loxias said that I should lie with my own mother and take on my hands the blood of my own father. And so for these years I;vs lived away from corinth; it has been to my great happiness but yet it’s sweet to see the face of Parents”( oedipus the king Pg. 53 lines 990-1000) Without any hard facts Oedipus assume that what he’s done is enough, and is arrogant and full of himself. Oedipus also kills his own father unknowingly, and assumes he got away with it. He committed this crime and pays no punishment and becomes king, but with a guilty conscience. Oedipus even calls himself out and says” O God, I think I have called curses on myself in ignorance”( pg 43 lines 745) Oedipus has realized his mistake and knows he has been ignorant and arrogant with pride. Another tragic element is the way women are treated in this play. Most women in this play are thought of as someone's wife, not a person. Jocasta has been the Queen of Thebes long before Oedipus came around and no one respects her or acknowledges her unless she is the only one available. Jocasta doesn’t even have lines unless she is telling the story about how her husband died and when the messenger comes in and breaks the news. In the Literary Database My article also includes tragic elements about the lack of feminism in this book and in this time period.
ReplyDeleteIn what i have read in feed so far, it seems like all of the main characters and titus are uneducated. They continuously spell words wrong and don’t talk in complete sentences. It seems that whatever world or time setting the story takes place in does not value education. Which on its own could be seen as hubris. The whole society in feed ignores the fact that they aren’t educated and that it would do nothing but better they’re society. Quendy, one of Titus's friends in the story says” Omigod! Like big thanks to everyone for not telling me that my lesion is like meg completely spreading”(pg.21) Most of the dialogue in this book is similar to this and none of them ever mention anything about school even though they are all teenagers.
Link to Oedipus database
http://web.b.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/detail/detail?vid=44&sid=60008c82-fb14-4027-a733-ef18d96a56bd%40pdc-v-sessmgr06&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#anchor=AN0049142229-7&AN=49142229&db=a9h
I used the Oedipus as CEO section
Sophia-- I agree with you about Feed, They do not value education. I may have read farther than you, but as far as I had gotten there is a part that says the Feed was initially made to make learning and education easier, but it became a problem and now people do not think they need a real education because everything they need is on the feed. Definite hubris going on.
DeleteThere are many tragic elements in Oedipus; such as the plague, the fact that Oedipus and Creon want to overthrow each other for power, and that Oedipus killed his father. I think the worst out of the three is that Oedipus killed his father. And what makes it even worse is that Oedipus didn’t even know it was his father. Oedipus was on his way to thebes. He was asked to move out of the way so a carriage could pass by, but Oedipus refused. The man in the carriage struck Oedipus with a whip, and Oedipus got very mad. He threw the man down off of his carriage, killing him. A little while later, Oedipus is with Jocasta when she mentions something about Laius being killed at a three way crossroad, and Oedipus realizes that he has just killed his father; but he will not own up to it. “ When I was near the branching of the cross roads, going on foot, I was encountered by a Herald and a carriage with a man in it, just as you tell me. He that lead the way and the old man himself wanted to thrust me out of the road by force. He’s a lead the way and the old man himself wanted to thrust me out of the road by force. I became angry and struck at the coach man who was pushing me. When the old man saw this he watched his moment, and as I passed he struck me from his carriage, full on the head with his two pointed goad. But he was paid in full and presently my stick had struck him backwards from the car and he rolled out of it. And then I killed them all.” (Sophocles, Pages 45-46, Lines 801-813). On the database I found an article named Reasonable Doubt from Oedipus The King and it is written by a teacher whose students read Oedipus, and they basically believed that the play is purely drama with a little bit of Hubris. They believed that the only reason everything happened to him was because of fate, and he was destined to kill his father. I do not agree with the students. Oedipus controls his own fate. He could have decided not to kill his father, but instead he decided to have anger issues and go ahead and kill everyone. He could have had a civilized conversation, but he was too angry.
ReplyDeleteIn the book Feed by M.T. Anderson, I believe that one of the main ideas about the book is a tragic flaw. The fact that the characters have wires connected to them is a huge part of the story, but in my eyes it stops the characters from connecting with each other physically. They talk to each other through the feed; and while talking through the feed may be the easy way out, it worries me that they will eventually only talk to each other through the feed and their life will become purely just the feed. It limits human interaction and I assume that is why Violet is anti-social; because she doesn’t know how to interact with other humans. I hope by the end of the book the main characters find a way to remove the feed from their world. In one part of the book Violet and Titus were at a party. They couldn’t hear each other so they went on the feed instead of just walking to a more quiet place. They always opt to the easier solution to the situation although it isn’t always the best. “Violet was screaming to me. I couldn’t hear a thing. She was like, “Da da da? Da da!” I was like, “What?” She chatted me, This is a scene. I was like, Don’t you dance?” (Anderson, Page 35)
(SECOND HALF OF BLOG IS POSTED IN MY REPLIES)
As for comparing the two books, obviously there are only a few things in common. Oedipus is very old and Feed is relatively new. Oedipus has murder and killling and gore and Greek Gods, while Feed has teenagers and futuristic wires coming out of heads and trips to the moon. But the most common thing between Oedipus and Feed is that in both the books someone or something craves to have power. In Oedipus, Creon and Oedipus both want to be leaders of Thebes. They argue and I believe the end of the book will end with the death of one of them. In the beginning of the book, Oedipus sends his brother to the oracle and tries to take charge while telling his brother what to do. “We will know soon, he’s within hail. Lord Creon, my good brother, what is the word you bring us from the god?” (Sophocles, Page 14, Lines 84-86) In feed, the thing that is power hungry is the actual feed itself. No matter where they go and no matter what they’re looking at, the feed is constantly telling them something. Whether it has to do with shopping, looking up a word or anything they could possibly need, the feed is always there, waiting to be used. There is one part of the book when the group of friends went to the mall and the feed was going crazy over everything they were seeing. “And as we were walking around we were getting all the prices of things, but really the only thing that I wanted was to get was a pair of infrared knee bands.” (Anderson, Page 31) There was another part of the book where they are at a party and the prices of everything Titus looked at, and he was overwhelmed. “When I looked around, I wanted so much, that all of the prices were coming into my brain, and it was bam, bam, bam, like fugue-joy and Loga and Quendy and Calista were already out on the dance floor, and my feed was like going fried, going things about the dance and pictures they were feedflinging across the dance of people on fire doing the moves.” (Anderson, Page 35)
DeleteI believe that the book Oedipus the king can teach us most about world leaders today. Oedipus is power hungry just like our leaders. And although they’re not crazy enough to kill (we hope), they are without a doubt crazy. I’m not saying it is a bad thing, but it really helps show that power hungry people have been around for a long time, and not a lot has changed.
Data Base: https://www-jstor-org.snc.idm.oclc.org/stable/23266055?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=ti%3A%22Oedipus+The+King%22+and+tragedy&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dti%253A%2522Oedipus%2BThe%2BKing%2522%2Band%2Btragedy&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_solr_cloud%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A079e065761a5f9d0f2682c69d94b6da2&seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents
Obviously, the end of Oedipus is a tragedy as well. He was being dragged away from his daughters as they cried for him, and he also stabbed out his own eyes. "O my lord! O true noble Creon! Can I really be touching them, as when I saw? What shall I say? Yes, I can hear them sobbing- my two darlings! and Creon has had pity and has sent me what I loved most? Am I right?" (Sophocles, Page 73)
DeleteThere are many tragic elements in the story Oedipus the King. One element that I have seen is that Oedipus is becoming isolated. It seems like nobody is really helping Oedipus, nobody is on his side. And when a character becomes isolated they tend to take a fall and get exposed. I am also seeing high status. Oedipus is of high status and he will be the one to fall. Characters with high status often take hard falls and with Oedipus becoming isolated I believe that he will soon fall. When the messenger is telling Oedipus about when he found him in the ditch and told him about what had happened to him. The messenger told him who he got him from. Everything that messenger was telling him was constantly influencing his decisions. I am also seeing a lot of influenced decisions, Jocasta influences Oedipus a lot more that people think. Jocasta was Queen of Thebes before Oedipus was King and I think that Oedipus cares about what she thinks. And he also respects her a lot. On page 57, line 1066 and 1067 Jocasta says "It is because I wish you well that I give you this counsel-and it's the best counsel". Oedipus believes Jocasta that the counsel she is talking about is the best. This is just one of many examples throughout the story. In the database that I found it says that Oedipus is a great ruler that no other Sophoclean ruler has, genuine wisdom with a genuine noble devotion to others. This is interesting to me because I slowly start to see Oedipus being exposed and I feel like Oedipus is kind of being overrated in this.
ReplyDeleteFEED is in a very futuristic theme and it is very interesting. I found a few tragic elements in the start of the novel. When they go into the hotel they say that it is crappy and they gave them a fake ID. I also notice that there is swearing and constantly words being spelled wrong in FEED. This could have to do with the lack of education.
Link to Database
https://www-jstor-org.snc.idm.oclc.org/stable/10.1111/j.1468-2508.2004.00276.xSearch=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=%28%28Oedipus%29+AND+%28Tragic%29%29&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoAdvancedSearch%3Fgroup%3Dnone%26q0%3DOedipus%26q1%3DTragic%26q2%3D%26q3%3D%26q4%3D%26q5%3D%26q6%3D%26sd%3D%26ed%3D%26pt%3D%26isbn%3D%26f0%3Dall%26c1%3DAND%26f1%3Dall%26c2%3DAND%26f2%3Dall%26c3%3DAND%26f3%3Dall%26c4%3DAND%26f4%3Dall%26c5%3DAND%26f5%3Dall%26c6%3DAND%26f6%3Dall%26acc%3Don%26la%3D&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_solr_cloud%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastlydefault%3A25b842cd911be3a926e2fb957c66a0c3&seq=3#metadata_info_tab_contents
Speaking to the lack of education in Feed I think its very important to emphasise this point. Imagine a world where all information is available in your head all the time with a quick search. There would be no need to ever memorize anything. Additionally, with a constant feed of information being thrown at you, it would be hard to focus on a single subject long enough to retain anything with real value. This can relate to society today. People are addicted to the quick satisfaction of instant knowlege and a constant rotation of entertainment. A "trend" of today could last for as little as a week. This is eggagerated in feed with instances like when the girls go into the bathroom and change their hairstyles a couple times a day only based on what the feed says is popular. Unit says "once, she went to the bathroom, casual-like, and came back with her hair parted in a different place." (Anderson, 2002, pg 52).
DeleteIn Oedipus the king, many tragedies occur. It starts with Laius and Jocasta, the King and queen of Thebes, speaking to an Oracle about how they will have a son who kills Laius and marries Jocasta. Later on, Laius and Jocasta have a son. A shepherd takes this child to the mountains to be killed,” I loosed you, the tendons in your feet were pierced and fettered,”(Sophocles lines 1033-1035), hoping the oracle’s vision will not come true if it had not been for the shepherd sparing his life and giving him to polybus to raise as his own, "Because Polybus was no kin to you in blood" (Sophocles' line 1017). Oedipus would have died. Next, Oedipus runs into travelers in a rage, killing them. Oedipus has killed his father, then solving the riddle of the sphinx, becoming the new king of Thebes marrying Jocasta, his mother being the new king and queen of Thebes. A plague kills many people living in Thebes Oedipus talks to this old Oracle, demanding to know the plague’s reasoning. The Oracle told Oedipus that he what is the reason that he had killed the last king, soon finding out that it was his father and that he had been married to his mother.
ReplyDeleteI haven’t gotten too far into feed, but from what I have read. It seems to show some similar tragedies to Oedipus the king. Controlling. The kids in this story have something installed in them that is apart of them. “We flew up in our feeds were blur bring all sorts of things about where to stay and work to eat it.” (Anderson pg 3) “then there’s that silence when you’re driving home alone in the up car, and there’s nothing but the feed telling you this is the music you heard this is the music you missed this is what is new listen.” (Anderson, pg 4).
Oedipus the king database
http://web.a.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/ebookviewer/ebook/ZTg3MHN3d19fODM3OTg3X19BTg2?sid=4ee93355-5f67-4ad6-ab7e-a8d236e3fd27@sdc-v-sessmgr02&vid=3&format=EB&rid=1
I disagree that Oedipus and feed have the same tragedies. In Oedipus, there are many deaths and unfortunate events, and so far in feed, there have not been any deaths nor any major tragic elements. The stories so far are very different. I so far do not think Feed will be like Oedipus the king in very many ways.
DeleteI agree that some tragic elements are shared throughout the story however I dont see what tragic element is shared with Oedipus in regards to the kids being controlled by what they have installed in them.
DeleteIn Oedipus, there are several tragic elements that are displayed. The one that is obvious to me is High Status. Oedipus is the king of Thebes, which is the highest status in the story. Then Oedipus is clearly going to have his status. We just got to the section of the play where the Shepard tells Oedipus that the proficiency has unfortunately come true. Another tragic element is the bad omen that takes place at the beginning of Oedipus. Oedipus has a fatal flaw and it happens to be his temper and believing he is right all the time. New information I have learned from the database is that Sophocles' play describes the world's most famous prototype of what is currently known as "road rage"; it is one of the world's supreme artistic achievements and features Greek tragedy's greatest figure and one of subsequent eponymous renown; and it exhibits an unexcelled orchestration of multiple ironies interpenetrating the language, character, theme, and plot. The difference between Sophocles and Shakespearean plays is that Shakespearan plays deal more famously know as romantic tragedies. In Sophocles are more about mythologies.
ReplyDeleteBooks can teach us so much about leaders today. Books show how leadership roles have evolved over the centuries. Older texts show how kings and their personalities faulted their kingdoms and ultimately lead to their kingdom’s failure.
http://web.b.ebscohost.com.snc.idm.oclc.org/ehost/detail/detail?vid=4&sid=583a71d4-5d50-46d2-9b6f-54dd29d436df%40sessionmgr101&bdata=JnNpdGU9ZWhvc3QtbGl2ZSZzY29wZT1zaXRl#AN=55450290&db=a9h
I agree with you saying that Oedipus has high status and it could eventually lead to his down fall, however I don't agree that is the highest status in the story. The gods such as Apollo have the highest status. The citizens of Thebes and other countries follow the will of the gods without question. You also might want to incorporate more talk of feed into your post.
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