Blog #1: Can books teach us anything about our leaders today?
*Argue which character/s from your novel and Oedipus Rex show leadership qualities (or lack thereof)
*You may wish to incorporate if characters may be like our own leaders or leaders in history as part of your response. You may also compare the characters to yourself and/or make predictions about the new book you are reading.
You may discuss any segment of the novel, including the end, but do not spoil the end of the play (yet).
Please take into considering societal, historical, and.or gender roles in your response (or you may have other ideas).
For full credit, you MUST have quotations as support of your points from both texts, you MUST show reading and avoid online summary info, you MUST respond to a minimum of 2 posts. Points will be deducted for those students who wait until the last 12-24 hours, for spelling problems, repeating information already stated, confusing responses, attacking classmates verbally, simply agreeing without saying much of anything, or off-topic commentary.
------Having support from databases may be given additional credit if used well----
DATABASES ARE NOT REQUIRED FOR THIS BLOG, but your argument will be judged harshly, so be prepared to defend yourself!
**This blog will end at 9 a.m. on 10/9. Remember that starting on the last 12-24 hours prior will result in loss of points since your discussion will be limited.
There are countless elements of leaders. In the novel Nineteen Minutes one of the leaders is Patrick Ducharme. Patrick is the lone detective in the Sterling Police Department. On March 6th, when Peter Houghton began shooting students inside of Sterling High School, Patrick responded to the hostile situation. When Patrick arrived to the scene he was told to wait for the Special Operations Unit but he knew there was no time to follow protocol when every second mattered. “He ran through hallways that seemed to circle in on each other. ‘Where?’ he would bite out every time he passed a fleeing student- his only tool of navigation. He’d see sprays of blood, and students crumpled on the ground, and he did not let himself look twice.” (Picoult, 2007, pg. 22) Patrick ran through the disturbing scene in the hallways, chasing the shooter, and risking his life to stop the shooter and ended up preventing him from killing himself. Then he carried the injured Josie Cormier out of the locker room that the shooter was in. Patrick was the bravest man on that horrific day. Patrick also valued the truth. When Drew, a kid who bullied Peter, gets prepared to testify he lies about bullying Peter. He tells Drew “if you get on that witness stand and you lie about your actions in the past, I will make sure you wind up in jail for obstruction of justice.” (Picoult, 2007, pg. 353). Patrick kept everyone honest and held other people to higher standards which is not always seen in today’s society.
ReplyDeleteIn the play Oedipus the King, Oedipus is the leader of Thebes. He gained this title after the death of the previous king. Like Patrick Ducharme, Oedipus is a leader. But in contrast, Oedipus is not a good leader. Oedipus has a kingdom of sick and dying people. “I know you are all sick, yet there is not one of you, sick though you are, that is as sick as I myself.” (Grene, 1942, pg. 13). Oedipus has his people dying at his feet but says he is even sicker. He speaks like he wants to help his people but actions are much more impactful than words and he has not done anything to physically help his people yet. Oedipus also seems to be selfish. The priest speaks very highly of the king, “You came by your coming saved our city, freed us from tribute which we paid of old to the Sphinx, cruel singer.” (Grene, 1942, Pg. 12). Everyone in Thebes is grateful to Oedipus for getting rid of the Sphinx and it only boosts his huge ego.
I think books can tell us a lot about leaders, past and present. Leaders in the real world have some of the same qualities as the leaders in these books. First responders and police officers are leaders for their community just like Patrick Ducharme in Nineteen Minutes. First responders risk their lives, help the needy, and are very brave just like Patrick. Otherwise dictators and other scary leaders of countries relate to Oedipus who seems to be a selfish type of leader. Some dictators brainwash their people into believing they are a God like in North Korea. Those people praise their leader just like the people in Oedipus the King do. The traits found in leaders in books are related to leaders all over the world in real life.
The cons are I feel like your whole first paragraph is an summary and you do flow very smoothly into the quotations, to smooth. What ends up happening is the reader gets lost in the transition from your wording to the quotations. The pros are that I totally agree with your last paragraph and like how you explain what makes Oedipus who he is in the second paragraph.
DeleteI agree that Patrick is a leader, not a lot of people would go against orders. Especially if your job depends on it. However I would have used a better example for Patrick. such as "You can fire me later!"(page 27) to show that he puts the kids first.
DeleteI agree that Oedipus is a bad leader. He does not help his people enough and he is just letting them die. I also agree with you saying that Patrick is a good leader because it takes lots of courage to do his job and it would be very hard to act the way he did.
DeleteBased on your post I agree with you that Patrick Ducharme is a leader. He risked his life in order to save Josie and also Peter and that is something that a lot of people would like to say they would do but not many will risk there life for someone else's life. Plus the fact that even though Peter was the shooter he stood up for him and made sure that people did not lie on the stand when asked if they were bulling him. Great post!
DeleteI completely agree with you on Oedipus. It is awesome how you mentioned he had a ḧuge ego and that people only like him because he rid them of the Sphinx. I love how you compared leaders in books to average people like police officers and first responders. It helps us realize books are not always so different than real life, and how we can all be heroes.
DeleteThe “Daddy” Donald was an example of a great leader in the book The Ditchdigger’s Daughters.
ReplyDeleteDonald puts his children first and would do anything for them. He works two jobs or more at a time to pay for his daughters meals and musical instruments. Dad never went to the doctor or dentist even though he had terrible teeth, but when he found out Jeanette one of his daughters had a bad jaw structure he did everything in his will to get his daughters good dental help. On page 41 Daddy “managed to materialize enough money for us to have our teeth pulled and align our bites so that the rest of our teeth would not drift, loosen, or fall out. About the time we needed this work, the brother of the owner of a garment sweatshop where mommy worked as a presser graduated from dental school, so daddy was able to arrange for a bargain rate.” said yvonne on of Donalds daughters. But daddy didn't care how bad his teeth were he only cared about the girls. And daddy manage to scratch up money and get good deals to get their teeth fixed.
Donald had goals, which is a strong form of leadership. His main goal throughout the novel was that his five girls would grow up to be doctors. A quote on page 3 states “Daddy had set his heart on the improbable notion that his five black daughters would grow up and become doctors.” With that being said right from the beginning of the novel everyone knew what his objective was. And daddy did everything in his power for the girls to live up to his dream. He fought with banks to get money to build a house next to the “good school” (Gregory School) so that his daughters could start off with a good education. Because daddy fought he was “the first mortgage the Shadow Lawn Bank of Long Branch I never granted to a black.” And he took that money and built a house on his own in the area of Gregory School. He didn’t give up the whole time even though everyone doubted him, just so his daughters could get a good education.
Donald always thought ahead in the future and planned very well. Daddy said on page 21 “ You should always be thinking ahead.” As he was building the new house “fifty feel back, so their little legs’ll get tired and they’ll fall down before they run out into the street” talking about his daughters. So when they play they won’t get injured in the road because the house is so far back.
Donald also gives good advice to his daughters. He said “ if there’s a will, there’s a way. If you can’t get in the front door, go around the back. If you can’t get in the back, try window. Just don’t give up and you’ll get in.” Talking to Yvonne about getting into medical school on page 133. He always says never give up, and believes that anyone can achieve anything they put their minds to.
Oedipus is an example of a bad leader from the play Sophocles Oedipus The King
Oedipus is a bad leader because when his people were dying he did nothing but sit on his butt. He made a priest try to help them but wouldn't do it himself. On page 11 Oedipus says to the priest “You’re old and they are young; come, speak for them.” Personally, I think a good leader should try and save his people himself, and do anything in his power to make sure they are okay. Oedipus didn't seem to care much about his people at all he just liked the power.
The cons, I feel you did not focus enough on Oedipus, I understand that we did not get far in story though, and you do not have in text citations. The pros, I love your examples, they are great at getting the point across and are interesting to the audience.
DeleteI agree with the statement about Oedipus. He did not really do much himself he just acted only a little concerned about his people dying. The only reason I think he was concerned because it makes him look bad as a king to have all his people dead. This is another example of him being selfish and doing what is only best for him.
DeleteI do not agree with your statement about Oedipus, personally I think Oedipus acquires a lot of leadership qualities. For one he has a goal, and that goal is to help his people. Although he isn't doing that himself, he is still doing everything in his power to help them as much as possible. I think that asking the priest for help was actually a very noble thing to do because many leaders are too "stuck up" to ask for help from others, especially just an average priest. Just because he lacks the knowledge of how to help them, that shouldn't mean that he isn't considered a leader. Oedipus is also very respected, and whether people agree with him or not, people listen to him and respect whatever he says.
DeleteThat unknown person was supposed to be me, I messed up ^^^
DeleteI disagree with your opinion on Oedipus. Yes, he requested help from the Priest, but only doing so because he was not sure of what to do. He displays many leadership characteristics seeing as he is the King and he has a whole kingdom to take care of. I feel like he just needs an extra push or ideas given to him in order to accomplish them.
DeleteI agree with you that Donald was a very strong leader in the book Ditchdigger's Daughters. He did everything in his power to better his children's life. He brought them to every concert and got them anything they need to stand out. He worked two 8 hour jobs during the week and on weekends he took odd jobs and travel with the band which you mentioned. The work ethic that he shows his daughters is something that is absolutely incredible and I believe is one of main factors in why his daughters succeeded in life. Great work on your post!
DeleteI agree with what youre saying about Oedipus and his leadership roles. Oedipus should have helped the people himself instead of making the Priest do the work. Also in the play Oedipus roughly says he is "more sick" than the dying people (pg.13 line 60-61) which is completely false. Maybe you could have added a bit more proof about how Oedipus only cares about himself because I found plenty of evidence but otherwise good post!
Delete@Influencer, I did'nt have that much about Oedipus because at that time we we not that far into the play. But now I can say that he was a very rude human, which is not a good leadership skill. On page 29 he calls Teiresias a "fool" and insults him on page 26 line 371 by saying "because you are blind in mind and ears as well as in your eyes." Oedipus is very self centered and only cares to look like a "good king" but actually does'nt care about his people and how they are treated.
DeleteIn the book Nineteen Minutes, there really is no strong leadership role. However there is definitely a character that is a follower, and that character is Josie Cormier. Josie stopped hanging out with Peter because when she did she was viewed as “not cool” and “unpopular”, so she completely ended the friendship with him and moved on to what was considered the popular group. Even in the story she admits to not being happy because she is being fake to herself and putting on an act to fit in. “...a fake who laughed at all the right jokes and whispered all the right gossip and attracted the right guy…” (Picoult, 2007, pg. 9). A strong leader would unquestionably help the needy, and be selfless but in Jodies situation, this is not the case. After her boyfriend, Matthew Royston, physically attacked Peter instead of Josie doing what was right, she chose to side with her boyfriend as she did not want the popular kids to think that she was siding with someone unfamiliar to their kind. “She wondered if Peter was still crying. If his nose was broken. If that was the worst of it”, “and she followed Matt without looking back.” (Picoult, 2007, pg.219). Despite knowing that turning around and helping Peter would have been the right choice, Josie valued her social status more than her morals.
ReplyDeletePeter most definitely was the wrong do-er within this book, however he did have some leadership qualities. Although he used his brains for the wrong things, there is no way to argue the fact that he was extremely intelligent. Before Peter committed his horrific crime, he managed to hack into the school computer system and had a message appear on every screen in the building that read “READY OR NOT . . . HERE I COME”. Peter felt control when he did this, he felt like he finally had all of the power in his own hands, which he had never experienced before. Leaders need some form of control to ensure that people listen, thus making Peter have some leadership qualities. In some odd way, Peter was also willing to risk his own life even though he purposely took the lives of so many innocent people. “I was going to kill the person I hated the most. But then I didn’t get to do it.” “Then who were you trying to kill?” “Me”. In a twisted way he really was willing to risk his life, he even wanted to take it. Peter was ready to die in order to make a point, and in my personal opinion a good leader should be ready to take his own life if it means that his voice should be heard. In the book I hope to see Peters reasoning for doing this horrible act be taken in front of the court to show what a deadly effect on students bullying can really be, and show that his actions were not just an act of crazy violence but to show that he needed that power to finally take control of his bad situation.
Within the play Oedipus The King, there most definitely is a strong leader who is of course, Oedipus himself. Although he is a leader, that does not necessarily mean that he is a good one. From reading the play it is clear to see that Oedipus truly wants to help the ill people “Indeed I’m willing to give all that you may need; I would be very hard should I not pity suppliants like these.” (Grene, 1942, pg. 11) His words do seem to be misleading in the statements that he does make because he says it in a way that makes him sound like he will take action to help these dying people, however he can only help them with cooperation from the priest. Meaning that he is willing to try, just not on his own. Oedipus is also definitely respected and admired, despite his lack of help towards the citizens dying in front of him he still manages to withhold the respect from all whom he encounters with “Now Oedipus, Greatest in all men’s eyes.” (Grene, 1942, pg.12)
I don't agree that Oedipus is a good leader he is very selfish. He only cares about himself, not his people. He wants to look like the best king he just won't put in the effort to work for it. He did nothing to try and help the people he pinned it on the priest to cure them.
DeleteI completely agree with your opinion on Oedipus. Although he is not always a great leader, he still displays exemplary leadership skills seeing as he is the only one who can really call the shots and help his people. I can also agree that he needs an extra nudge in order to take action. He does not seem like a real thinker when it comes to situations on his own, unless of course the riddle of sphinx.
DeleteI disagree that Peter was in any way a leader. He was intelligent in terms of technology but he did not show his intelligence in any other way. I would say a leader being in control is correct but Peter was bullied so badly that he needed the control, a leader should not need control, it should be earned. Also he could have risked his life by finding different was to stop the bullies, not kill the bullies. I don't think it should count as risking his life if he was the only one with a gun.
DeleteI disagree with myhandsrcold's first sentence. Even though some of the main characters lacked leadership such as Josie or Peter, does not mean other characters did. Alex did everything she could do to make sure her and her daughter's lives were going to be good. Also what I did not include in my blog but agree with is how Kobe said that Patrick was a leader. He is a big role in the book doing whatever he can to help the people affected by the traumatic event to happen in the Nineteen Minutes. He risked his life to save as many people as he could and he is losing sleep just to figure out why Peter did what he did which makes him a great leader in my opinion. I also disagree that Peter was in anyway a leader. he had a girl stick up for him, on page 66 it talks about how the bully took Peter's lunch box and through it out the window, and the on page 70 it states how Alex had to go pick up Josie from school because she beat up Peter's bully. Right from the beginning of the story he could not stick up for himself which makes him a coward in my eyes nothing like a leader.
DeleteI disagree with you with Oedipus sure he says he is going to help the people but in actuality he puts it on Creon to talk to the gods. To me it seems like he is putting all the work on Creon and taking all the credit for it. Plus if he cared about is people like he says on page 13 lines 59-61. He says I know you are sick, yet there is not one of you, sick though you are, that is as sick as I myself. But he is quite healthy and does not seem to be starved like everyone else in the land. To me if he cared he would have tried hard to help his people like give then food and try and get doctors to heal them.
Delete@BlackMeatloaf20 you mention in your disagreement that you do not think Peter is a leader because he had help from Josie to stop the bullies, however in your blog entry you did not mention anything about Oedipus being a bad leader because he asked help from the priest. You listed other ideas as to why you do not think that he is a good leader but by pointing out this “flaw” in Peter you should have also mentioned that you thought the same about Oedipus.
DeleteBooks can teach us many key factors of what it takes to be a leader. Often times in books there is always a leading character that takes initiative and has only the best in mind. In both Oedipus Rex and Educated, there are major examples of leadership all throughout each book. In Educated, Tara Westover (author) grew up in a household with no rules except one: work. She never had to attend school or keep up with herself, she simply had to work for her father and do as told. Tara had a driving urge to learn and make something of herself even when that made her father upset. She had goals and aspirations to succeed and that is truly what she did. Tara had major doubt before leaving her family and going to college, her family had only ever told her horror stories about education and the Government. ¨I don’t think I ́ll go either way. What if Dad ́s right? What if I get brainwashed?¨ (P.144) Tara explains her fears of not only college, but upsetting her father. Fast forward to when Tara gets to college, not only did she get accepted but she also had a scholarship as well. Tara struggled throughout college but always managed to pull herself together and manage it well. ̈ ̈If I fail this class, I ́ll lose my scholarship.¨ (P.185) Tara whines to her professor, who made her a longshot deal: whoever gets a perfect score of 100 on the final, passes with an A. Can you guess what Tara did? Got a perfect 100. Tara has displayed incredible leadership skills that could be a huge example to anyone. Oedipus as well can relate with Tara on some aspects. Although, Oedipus does not have the drive to do things really from his own thoughts or just without being told. Oedipus needs ideas and commands to be given to him in order for him to complete his role, yet he still does do what he is told and tries to benefit the people. I feel as though it is too early to call Oedipus a bad leader, seeing as he is trying to figure out a way he can help his people, even if it may take a little pushing. For example, Oedipus is the KIng of Thebes, so he has to look out for the welfare of his people. In the opening of the play, Oedipus sees his people lying in agony, in pain and on the brink of death. When he comes to this realization, he knows he needs to do something about it. Oedipus takes the initiative, not only because his people rely on him, but because he wants to prove something to himself as well. On page 12 line 40 in Oedipus the King, the priest cries to him saying, “Now Oedipus, Greatest in all men’s eyes, here falling at your feet we all entreat you, find us some strength for rescue.” Oedipus hears the cries of his people and takes matters into his own hands, “Call the assembly and let it meet upon the understanding that I’ll do everything. God will decide whether we prosper or remain in sorrow.”(P.17, line 143)Oedipus calls to the Gods and asks others for help, but once told he needs to exile the lost King’s murderer, he agrees and says he will make it happen. Oedipus and Tara no matter the circumstances both take responsibility and do what is needed to do whether it be for the better of the people or better of yourself. Although Tara and Oedipus have vastly different characteristics and personalities, their leadership skills surely show.
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Delete(Oops my bad)
DeleteFrom what you have here, it appears that Kara is a bright and talented girl who has overcame quite the many challenges. However, these are not the only skills needed to be a leader. For all I know, she is a social recluse who would rather go down a slide made of razor blades rather then lead a group of her peers. If this is not the case, then what moments of leadership could be used to support your claim?
I agree with you that Tara is a good leader. From what you have described she has an attitude like, what she wants she will work for. And that she went against her father just to go get an education proves she'll do whatver it takes to work toward her goals. And to me that also seems like a great leader trait to me.
Delete@Joseppi Poseppi Tara** Also Tara has displayed key factors of being a leader. Not only did she push herself to get a good education and succeed, she also did extra cirricular activities when she was younger including dance and acting in plays (keep in mind with no support from her family.) Being a leader does not only mean you have to lead a group of people, she is a leader to herself, not following in her family's footsteps. Only two out of seven of the Westover children went off to school and did something other than work for her father. She is one of them. Tara in my eyes is an exemplary leader who if needed would have no problem leading a group of peers, yet she had learning to do on her own first.
DeleteI agree with Joseppi. You proved that Kara has overcome many different challenges and that is great but that does not make a her a leader. We are all technically leaders of ourselves. Kara doesn't seem to influence anyone else except for herself. Also, going to dances and acting in plays does not make someone a leader.
DeleteYou gave lots of good examples of how she has over came lot of things in her life. A good leader has to be able to do lots of things that others are not willing to do.
DeleteI like how you wrote about a woman having a goal and accomplishing it even though she feared many things. It shows she worked hard for what she wanted. That is a great point of leadership especially since it was for a good thing, to get education.
DeleteIn the book Where the Crawdads Sing, there are many people with leadership skills, but I’ll be focusing on Kya and Tate. Kya, or The Marsh Girl as she’s called by the people of the town, has lived in the marsh by herself since she was eight. She’s smart, resourceful, and kind. This must be our perfect leader!. Well, as a result of living alone, multiple abandonments, and a little bit of racism thrown in there for good measure, she’s extremely reclusive and terrible in social situations. “Kya’s mind could live there [at a research lab], but her body could not” (Owens, 2018, p. 156) That would be quite a problem if she was ever thrusted into a position of leadership. Luckily, there is another character in the book that would be great in that situation. Tate Andrews. Tate is a former quarterback and the town hotshot. He’s charismatic, confident, assertive, and everyone seems to like him. All of the people skills that Kya lacks. If placed into a position of leadership, he would thrive. He may lack Kya’s intelligence and kindness, (Leaders are bound to make somebody mad, right?) but he’d surely be a great and selfless leader? Nope. He’s a rapist.
ReplyDeleteWell that’s no good. While Kya is great and would probably be a fair and just leader, she lacks the people skills needed. And Tate, who is horrible and would probably abuse his power, has exactly the skills needed to be a leader. What I got from this is that people who want power are rarely the kind of people who should have it. Taking this idea and applying it to real life, it’s hard to find evidence against it. The President, who has quite possibly the most important and powerful job in the world, has done a myriad of… not good things. And he was running against Hillary Clinton, who is also probably not quite as good of a person as we would like. The point is, as with these political figures and Tate Andrews, power seems to attract the worst kind of people. Of course, every rule has exceptions, and this is no exception. People like Martin Luther King Jr. who truly care about people and use their power selflessly do exist, but they seem to be quite the, well, exception. What I am excited to discover is which category King Oedipus fits into.
King Oedipus has appeared to be a caring king up to the point we have read. When confronted with the plague that has befallen his people he says how sorrowful he is and that he is trying his best to remedy it. While there is as of yet no definite way to prove his insincerity, my gut tells me that he isn’t quite telling the truth. Considering what I observed in Crawdads, I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned out to have some sort of ulterior motive. Anyway, since the actions and motivations of characters in fiction are based off of reality, they can teach lessons about real life.
Owens, D. (2018). Where the crawdads sing. New York: G.P. Putnams Sons.
Cons, you do not list any of the heroic/leadership elements from our paper (not necessarily bad) and your wording may put to much personality into a paper of this genre. Pros, I like your second paragraph and how you had a specific real life example and how you compare and contrast the two characters.
DeleteI completely agree with your opinion on Oedipus. It is way too early to rule him off as a bad guy, but he does seem a little suspicious. He is taking control of his people and understands the misery and pain being endured. Oedipus does need a little extra push when it comes to going through with plans of actions, yet he still does what is needed to do. As for Kya, I'm not as sure if she is more of just a good person who has had unfortunate things happen to her rather than a leader. A leader needs to be able to take control and social skills, in my opinion, is a pretty big factor of it.
Deleteunknown up above is me, i goofed as well.^^^^
DeleteI do not agree with you about Oedipus. He seems to me only care about himself because his people are dying in the streets and he just sets a chair on top of their bodies. The priest seems to be caring more than Oedipus because he is confronting the king that death had taken over the land and tells him he needs to do something.It seems to me that he is saying he wants to help his people but does not actually care that much because he is fine himself. He is doing it just because the people say he needs to not because he actually wants to help.
DeleteI also do not agree with your thoughts about Oedipus. He acts very selfish towards everyone and is only looking for power. He kills the Sphinx alone just to say he could, and take the credit. He also doesn't help the sick people and makes the Priest do it on is own, he just wants to look like a good king when in reality he only cares about himself.
DeleteI disagree with Oedipus being a good leader. He is letting his people die in the streets and he is not taking actions to help them. He also is accusing others of a murder that they did not commit. I think that Oedipus is a bad leader and should not be king.
DeleteI agree that Oedipus may be a caring king, but that does not make him a good leader. Just because he is sorrowful and feels bad does not mean he intends to do anything about it. A good leader would aid his dying people instead of stating how sorry he is for them. Especially when he is a king, and capable of helping.
DeleteMen and women can be leaders in many different ways. Frank McCourt exemplified many of them through his 27 year teaching career and life, all recorded in his memoir Teacher Man. Frank overcame more in his life than most. In Ireland McCourt was raised in poverty, and what little he did have was shared with his many siblings.Not long into his childhood his father vanished, adding to the difficult times. “That miserable childhood deprived me of self-esteem, triggered spasms of self pity, paralyzed my emotions.” (McCourt, 2005, page 1) A ray of hope shined down when he moved to America to go to college. After earning his teaching degree life did not get much better, he was turned down time and time again for jobs because of bad interviews and an Irish accent. Even after receiving jobs McCourt was under constant scrutiny from superiors most of his career for the unorthodox teaching methods he used. “I am teaching, storytelling is teaching” (McCourt, 2005, page 26). McCourt would eventually marry, but swiftly divorce. Frank's life was a roller coaster, going up and down constantly, but somehow he managed. Frank fought through all this adversity because he was strong willed and never quit. He was a leader and teacher in the classroom and someone to be admired. Frank would go on to write three best-seller books depicting all of his suffering and all of his triumph. “Someone calls, hey Mr. McCourt, you should write a book” (McCourt, 2005, page 257).
ReplyDeleteIn Oedipus The King, Oedipus is King of the Thebes. Oedipus is a leader, but not a very good one. His people are starving and lying in the streets. He prays for them but takes no physical action to help them. “Lord Creon, my good brother, what is the word you bring us from god?”(Grene, 1942, page 14) Frank and Oedipus are not similar leaders. Frank fought through adversity, faced criticism his whole life, and inspired students for nearly 30 years. He was a fantastic leader. Oedipus has not fought for anything, and only speaks of helping his people, without actually doing so. Oedipus is not a leader, only a lazy king.
Books can dramatize the role of leaders in some cases, but sometimes they get it just right. Frank McCourts teaching and leadership is the same as many teachers across the globe, including some in our own school. People fight to get what they want in life just like McCourt. Everyone can be a leader. Just like there are good leaders in real life, there are also bad leaders, like Oedipus. For example, Kim Jong Un, supreme leader of North Korea. This man is far worse than Oedipus. Oedipus does not help his people, but Kim Jong Un actively makes life worse in North Korea. The worst leader there could ever be. Good and bad people exist in both real life, and in fiction.
I disagree with you. Oedipus is not a leader, but does show leadership qualities. Oedipus is lazy, a liar, and most recently a big meanie. My argument to you is what has he done to show he is a leader. lines 35-37 tell us that that Oedipus is a man of action, not a leader. Oedipus defeated the Sphinx and freed the people, only to let the city crumble. Oedipus is a actions first man, making that he only leadership quality he has.
Delete@Anonymous
DeleteIn which way are you saying that Oedipus is not a leader? Technically, he's a leader, as he is the king. And, by your own admission you say that he "does show leadership qualities".
Books are deep tools of representation. The elements within a story can be reflected upon today's society and how it functions. One aspect of a story that often times shares many similarities with the real world would be that of a character. The characters of a story have the same qualities as a real person. A prominent quality in the stories Grendel and Oedipus was leadership. In Grendel, an ideal leader seen was Beowulf. Beowulf was a Geat warrior who demonstrated loyalty, goals and aspirations, being physically attractive, having support from above, the act of helping the needy, willing to risk his life, the use of a special weapon, intelligence, the act of leading, bravery, and earned respect. To explain, the description of being physically attractive comes from his physique, something Grendel himself mentioned often by the end of the book. A quote from him being as follows, “ the harder I stared at his gleaming shoulders, the more uncertain I was of their shape,” (Gardener, 1971, p.143). When it comes to helping the needy, that is how we come to meet Beowulf in Grendel. He arrives by boat in order to stop Grendel from attacking the Danes. Beowulf has risked his life on multiple occasions, an example being in the story, that being him fighting Grendel. Intelligence is a powerful tool, used well by Beowulf. He performed a sneak attack on Grendel by pretending to sleep. This initial attack turned the tide of the fight in his favor immediately. The respect given to Beowulf was well earned, which was made apparent when not only did his own men follow him with full confidence and trust, but the story of one of Beowulf’s adventures silenced the Danes insults. After Beowulf speaks the hall goes silent and all that Grendel could think as he listened was, “no thane in the hall would attack him again and risk the slash of that mild, coolly murderous tongue,” (Gardener, 1971, p.142). When comparing his characteristics to the real world, you can see some of these aspects in people who work in the Military, Police Force, or as a Firefighter. The people with these jobs show bravery, leadership, and the willingness to self sacrifice. Beowulf from Grendel shows many aspects of an ideal leader.
ReplyDeleteWhile there are ideal leaders, there are also those who have these characteristics but are not as benevolent as one would expect. Oedipus, from the story Oedipus, is one of these characters. He has qualities such as goals and aspirations, giving to the needy, and an active leader position. At the beginning of the story, we are introduced to Oedipus, who is searching for the murderer of the previous king, this is a clear goal. During the introduction, we have people dying before him. This is where negative signs about his character are revealed. He comes to meet them in person, giving them pity, but somehow still acting self centered. Lines that show include, “but came myself, I Oedipus whom all men call the Great,” (Sophocles, 2010, p.11), and, “yet there is not one of you, sick though you are, that is as sick as I myself,” (Sophocles, 2010, p.13). Not only does he have leadership qualities, but he also has a leadership role, that being his title as King. Oedipus is a good example of a corrupt absolute monarchy. He is a king with absolute power who does not use his power for the people. This is seen when he tries to help the dying with a priest, rather than just giving them food, water, and medicine. A lack of supplies not being the issue since it was seen that the King was in perfect health. Oedipus is a leader, but unlike Beowulf, he knowingly harmed others for his own self interests.
References:
Gardner, J. (1971). Grendel. New York, NY: Ballantine Books.
Sophocles & Grene, D. (2010). Oedipus the King. Chicago: University of
Chicago Press.
I think you are correct to say that Oedipus seems to be a selfish ruler but I don't think the reasoning makes sense. There's no evidence that there is or isn't a lack of supplies, and Oedipus is the king and only one person so he would definitely not be expected to give up his resources. Also he hasn't really done anything to "harm" his people. All he has done is talk about saving them and making it right. Oedipus has not done anything physically to help his people yet but he hasn't harmed them either.
DeleteIf Oedipus is the king, he is supposed to be a leader. A leader would do anything for his people including sharing his resources. Oedipus is harming his people by not acting and fixing the issues.
Delete@Kobe If I were a citizen of the king's kingdom I would expect a good king to help his people. I would understand if there was limited supplies, but there is no sign of this. @hangnail:) I agree with what you say. What you are talking about is a ideal king, Oedipus not being that.
DeleteIn Nineteen Minutes by Jodi Picoult, there is a lack of leadership in most characters. Almost all of the students in the high school follow people or wish they could be like the "popular" kids. Josie lost Peter as a friend because she would have rather fit into the cool kid group then have a good friend who actually cared about her. On page 239 Josie says "I have to act the way people expect me to act. It's part of the whole... thing. If I don't..." She knows if she does not follow the popular kids she would be treated like Peter which shows Josie is in no way a leader. One person who showed great leadership qualities in nineteen minutes was Alex Cormier,she became a mother when she had no idea how to do anything and the guy that got her pregnant told her to get rid of it. That took a lot of courage which is a huge aspect in being leader. She also became a judge when no one said she could do it and they said she was too pretty or too young, and she was not respected. On page 13 it talks about how Alex forgot her keys so she had to go through the front door and a man looked at her and said "Hey baby, I like your shoes" which is quite disrespectful to say to the judge that is about to take your case but she put it aside her and did her job the way she as suppose to even though she was treated not in the best manner. She keeps herself together which is a good leadership quality also. Finally in Oedipus, I think he will turn out to be a bad leader. At first in the play it talks about how he wants to save his people and he will do anything to do so.When Oedipus talks to Teiresias (which he can only speak the truth), Teiresias on page 25 says "you are the land's pollution, which I assume Oedipus is the reason the people are sick and he chose to not listen to Teiresias, which to me makes him stubborn and that he can do no wrong. Being selfish is a bad leadership quality and quite frankly in my eyes if you are selfish you would make a very bad leader and in order to be a king to the land you have to be a good one.
ReplyDeleteI got a little lost towards the end there. But I liked the points you made at the beginning about how Josie is not a leader but a follower. I also strongly agree that if you want to be a good leader, you can not be selfish by any means!
DeleteI like how you lay down the events but it is messy. I really like how you talk about Alex (but page numbers would have been nice) taking charge and being the better person. I especially like how you bring up what Teiresias says about Oepidus.
DeleteCons, you contradict your introduction by, at first, talking about the lack of leadership, then talking about a great leadership example halfway through. Another con is how your main point for Oedipus is based of an assumption. Pros, Your examples for 19 minutes are good.
ReplyDeleteIn the book Ditchdigger's Daughters there were two people that stuck out to me as leaders. The first is Donald, He told his girls to never take no as an answer to always push forward no matter what society says about their skin color. Showing them to always persevere even when things get hard. An example is when Donald tried to get a mortgage so he went to the president of the bank. Donald told the girls about how you always go to the top person so they don't have to worry about anyone getting mad then you establish common ground and when you go to make a request you always be humble and try and make them feel like a big man for helping you. Of course it worked and he got the mortgage. (Thornton, 2002, Pg. 29) Donald was also so selfless he did everything in his power for his kids. He worked two jobs, drove them to every performance, and even build a house for them to live in on the nice side of town. Donald had goals, which is important for a leader to have because it motivates everyone. His goal was for his five daughters to be doctors. All the men that donald worked with laugh and said all his daughters will be having babies at fifteen just like all the women during the time period. This shows the gender roles at this time period that women should be in the house and having babies. But Donald had is heart set and that is what keeps his girls from having babies. Lastly Donald is hardworking and brave, because most people would give up when people tell them no or when racist people would slash him down and this is why he was such an inspiration for his daughters. Donald reminds me of Martin Luthur King Jr. because he always stood up for what he believed in and was working hard for the good of the people to get descrimination stopped. Donald may not have fought for the common good of the people but he sure did fight for this daughters and always kept his head up high and never gave up when things here hard and that is exactly what Martin Luther King Jr. did!
ReplyDeleteThe Second person I believe is a leader is Yvonne. She had goals to become a doctor and she was the first daughters to succeed because Donna and Jeantte gave up when they were faced with organic chemistry, she said she would not be another to let down to her dad. She is also inspirational she was the first person of her race to pass the boards in maternal fetal medicine. She also is such a hard worker, she says that she juggled one baby, being pregnant with another, working with people who despised the color of her skin, studying for her boards, her husband Sherwood away from her, shoveling snow to try and make it to the hospital to deliver babies, and finally having her own baby in her first year of being in the navy. (Thornton, 2002, Pg.227) Talk about work ethic! Yvonne is also every intelligent, she was asked to speak at the annual meeting of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists in Orlando. She was the only black person there and also the only women there! (Thornton, 2002, Pg. 259) But nevertheless she got a standing ovation from all the male doctors. Let's go outside the box and say Yvonne reminds me of Michael Jordan. Stick with me here but did he not come from poverty and have to work extremely hard to get where he was. He spends hours in the gym working on shooting and practicing techniques. Which in a way is what Yvonne did she spent hours studying for organic chemistry, for her boards, for medical school just like Jordan had to do.
I really like how you mentioned that Donald reminds you of Martin Luther King Jr. because Donald seems as if he had many really good leadership qualities. Your example of gender roles and what society think women should be like is a good point when Donald makes sure his kids are educated and different from the rest of the society.
DeleteI really think it makes a connection to people when you mention that they are like famous people that everyone knows of. When you say how Yvonne is like Michael Jordan I think it is inspiring to people that they can do anything they want to.
DeleteThank you @hangnail:), I thought the comparisons could help people who are not reading my book connect to the post and visualize her work ethnic!
DeleteIn the play Oedipus Rex, Oedipus does not show leadership qualities. One he would not risk his life for his people because he goes to the city to see his people in ruins. The town is heavy with mingled burden of sounds and smells, of groans and hymns and incense.(Grene, 1942, Pg.11) As can be seen his people lie groaning in pain about to die and he seems fine and does not seem like he cares that much. Also he does not help the needy and selfish, the people are starving and suffering from diseases and they our begging for help and he does not seem to worry himself because he has food and is fine. But the pollution grown ingrained within the land. (Grene, 1942, Pg. 14) The pollution has killed all crops and when the people go to pick it up the food turns to dust because of it. He also sends creon to talk to the gods for his country if he was courageous, why would you not go for yourself. To show that you will do anything for your people. It just seems to me that he is talking the talk and not walking the walk. But I believe we should be able to tell more after reading a bit more!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that Oepidus has very little leadership qualities. On page 26 line 374 Oepidus talking to Teiresias says "Your life is one long night so that you cannot hurt me or any other who sees the light." Which proves that Oedipus is very full of himslelf, which is very un-leadership like. And on page 27 line 386 Oedipus also says "suborns this juggling, trick devising quack" to Teiresias which is very rude.
Delete@smiley I agree. Although I don't believe that we will be getting a redemption out of Oedipus. Lines 335-337 tell us Oedipus (to a degree) is bullying Teiresias by saying how he is a villain for not telling him anything. Even Though Oedipus has been nothing but rude to Teiresias. So all we can hope for is for the gods to sit him down and have a nice long chat with the "King".
DeleteI agree with this statement. For the most part. I do think that Oedipus has leadership qualities, as he does do stuff like send for help from Apollo which shows that he cares for his people and is able to take action when things get tough. You ask why he would send Creon instead of going himself; Would a president lead a war? Would a mayor build a road?
DeleteI do not agree with your viewpoint on Oedipus, he may not seem too bothered with the dying people on the outside but when you really examine the situation you can see that it is clear that Oedipus truly cares. Why else would a king with high standards lower himself to a mere priest to ask for help? It is because he does not hold this knowledge and by asking for help he can make sure that he is helping them in the correct way.
Delete@myhandsarecold I think he lower his self standard and ask the priest for help because he does not know what he is doing. He did not get his position of king by actually doing anything. He got it from inheritance.
Delete@ Joseppi Poseppi, I understand where your coming from but in 430 B.C. you would expect to see the leaders out on the battle fields and taking responsibility. Personally I think Oedipus only sent for Apollo because the priest tells him he should. He also is extremely rude to Teiresias because he will not tell him his future. ON page 27 line 379 He say Oedipus will be a hurt to himself which is why I believe Teiresias does not like Oedipus because he can see the future and tell that Oedipus is a bad leader and self centered and that will be the end of him!
Delete@Smiley
DeleteFair, leaders back then may have been more hands-on, but that still doesn't mean that not being hands on is a sign of bad leadership. His personal ruling style doesn't detract from his passion for his people. As for sending for Apollo, he listened to the priest's advice. This shows that he listens to his people. Finally, he does yell at Teiresias, which may look bad at first. However, Teiresias has an amazing ability to see the future that he is refusing to share with his king. And since Teiresias can see that Eddy will be a bad leader in the future (but won't tell him how to change it), is it possible that Teiresias is the one in the wrong? I mean, he has a chance to save his king from himself, but he just lets whatever is gonna happen happen.
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DeleteIn Ditchdigger’s daughters by Yvonee S. Thornton, M.D. the dad is the main leader in the book. He is the one who gives all the advice to his girls and takes control of the family. He provides for them from the beginning of the book all the way to the end. Back in the 60’s it was not uncommon for the man to “run the house”. However it was not always expected of a black man. Most black men would leave their families on their own. Donnald did not do this. He meets tass in the beginning of the story when they are younger and he decides that she is going to be his girl for the rest of their lives.
ReplyDelete“ The sight of Tass lying still and drawn against the white sheets of the hospital bed rooted her unshakably in Donald’s heart as his to take care of (Thorton, pg.9 ) ” . He shows that he is selfless by not worrying about himself or what he wanted and focused on what his girls needed. Everytime one of his daughters wanted something, take a type of lesson or class he would just work harder so he could give it to them. When Betty needed a home to live in, he took her in to help her. He did not do this for himself he did it for Betty even though he knew it would put more of a financial strain on him.
“ Your sister wants Betty and she can do more for her than you can afford to.” ( Thorton, pg. 53). Donnald proved he was a leader by not backing down and not taking no for an answer. This is something he did throughout the entire book. When one of his kids did not get a fair advantage due to their skin color, He did not accept it for how it was. This is something that he passed onto all of his girls. He taught them all how to fight for what they want to and ever give up. This motivation is what made Yvonee the first african american women to pass their boards in maternal and fetal medicine.
In the play of Oedipus the main character (Oedipus) is who is expected to be the so called “leader” of the Thebes but I disagree. Oedipus does seem like he could be a nice person and have the potential to be a great heroic leader, but so far he seems very lazy. First of all he did not put in any work to become the leader. He received the position from inheritance. He claims he cares so much about his dying people that are laying on the floor but he is not doing anything to help them, just telling them to be quit whining because he is sicker the them. “I know you are all sick, yet there is not one of you, sick though you are, that is as sick as I myself.” (Grene, 1942, pg. 13). Oedipus is just letting them all suffer and die right in front of his eyes. If times are so bad, why does Oedipus seem just fine? He appears to be completely healthy. A true leader would be sharing the food he has with all the starving people so they are not eating duat. From what it sounds like to me, at one point in time Oedipus was a good leader and did stuff for the sake of his people. Now he is just all talk and no action. When the priest came to tell Oedipus that Laius had died, he did say that he was willing to go and help look for the murdurer and kill him. “Whoever he was that killed my king may readily wish to dispatch me with his murderous hand; so helping the dead king I help myself.” (Grene, 1942, pg.17). This will give him a chance to prove himself if he is a good person or not. If he follows through with his word and punishes the murderer. Oedipus is a king but definitely not a leader. I do think that over time and as we continue to read the play of Oedipus we will learn more and more about him and get to really know his true character.
Oedipus is like many other dictators in the world where everything has to be about them such as Kim Jong Un. In Ditchdigger’s Donald is a lot like a life coach.
From what you have explained I completely agree with you that the dad (Donald) is a strong leader. Personally I think being selfless is one of the best qualities a leader should have, because why would you want a leader that is not willing to put his "followers" first? you would not. I also think that it is pretty cool to see how persistent he was in ensuring that his girls got the same education as everyone else did despite their race.
Delete@myhandsarecold I 100% agree with you on that! people would be crazy if they wanted a leader that does not out his people first.
Delete^^^ *not
DeleteThere are several different kinds of people that could be considered good leaders. In the book I am Malala, Ziauddin is a good leader for several reasons. Ziauddin is Malala’s father and he teaches her that no matter what kind of person you are you deserve a chance to succeed. A good leader does not separate people from one another. A member of the Taliban named Mullah Ghulamullah went to the school complaining how men could see girls entering the school and he said “I am representing good muslums and we think your girls’ school is haram and a blasphemy.”(Yousafzai, 2015, pg. 94). Ziauddin could have just given up and allow the Taliban to kick the girls out of his school but he suggests that the girls use the back entrance of the school so that no one could see them but they could still go to school. Another leader is Malala herself. She is very determined in what she does. Young women follow in her footsteps and go above and be one with her. Malala goes to school even though she is scared to. She says “I am afraid that the Taliban with guns would leap out at me or throw acid in my face, as they had done to other women in Afghanistan.” (Yousafzai, 2015, pg.236-237). She always acted tough for the other girls. Malala cares so much about education that when her family went back to their home after the army and the Taliban fought, the first thing that she did was check her school supplies. “To my joy I found my bag still packed with my books, and I gave thanks that my prayers had been answered and that they were safe.”(Yousafzai, 2015 pg. 190). She wants everyone to get an education so that they will succeed. Malala found some children in a rubbish pile and she even tried to convince her father to allow them to attend his school. “Aba, you must give them free places at your school.” (Yousafazai, 2015, pg. 81). No matter what the situation is that people have different ways of showing that they are fit to be a good leader.
ReplyDeleteI like how you said her father was a good leader instead of her. I know most people would've taken the easy route and said her. I. may or may not be most people.
DeleteI really like what you said about Ziauddin. He seems a lot like the father from The Ditchdigger's Daughters. They both stand up for their children and that shows a lot of respect. Maybe it is just a family or dad thing.
DeleteIn the play Oedipus there is one leader that sticks out. He is a king and he treats his people very poorly. He is not a good leader. His people are very sick but he is not helping them he says “I pity you children. I know you are all sick though you are, that is as sick as I am myself.” (Sophocles, 1942, line 58-61). He is also very impatient with people. He says “On Creon’s word I have sent two messengers and why the prophet is not here already I have been wondering.” (Sophocles,1942, line 287-289). Great leaders need to be able to wait for someone to do something or to allow a plan to be successful. Patients is a very big key to leadership. Oedipus is looking to others for help even though he could find out anything by himself. “For God’s sake if you know anything, do not turn from us; all of us kneel to you, all of us here, your suppliants.” (Sophocles, 1942, line 326-328). Oedipus continues to have anger issues blaim other people for a murder of the king. He says “Indeed I am so angry I shall not hold back a jot of what I think. For I would have you know I think you were complotter of the dead and doer of the dead save in so far as for the actual killing. Had you had eyes I would have said you alone murdered him.” (Sophocles, 1942, line 345-349). Good leaders do not get upset and accuse others of things that they do not have solid proof of.
ReplyDeleteBooks can tell us a lot about leaders and have different leadership qualities. In these two books there are several examples of good and bad leaders. To be a leader you have to have certain qualities that make you stand out from others. Malala and her father are good leaders because they stood up to others and proved to others that they are going to put up a fight for what they think is right. On the other hand, Oedipus is not such a good leader because he does not help his people and accuses others of a crime that they did not commit. Leaders in real life have similar qualities to the ones in the books. Ziauddin is a lot like Martin Luther King Junior. Martin was fighting to stop racism. He is very popular because he led several movements against segregation. Ziauddin would not take no for an answer, he would always protect his children's rights to go to school. He did not want only the males to get an education.
I disagree with what you say about Oedipus. The king may have some rude qualities but the good should outweigh the bad. He is very powerful and has a lot of authority. Authority is the most powerful and leader-based trait. Someone could have all these great qualities to become a leader but if they lack authority, how can they LEAD?
DeleteI posted the unknown post
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like you are contradicting yourself. But in the begining you said Oepidus is the one leader that sticks out. But on page 29 line 433 he called Teiresias a "fool" and that is not the qualities of a leader at all. Leaders should be nice and care about everyone.
ReplyDeleteLeadership is not for everyone, but it is for for Patric Ducharme in Nineteen Minutes. In 19 minutes by Jodi Picoult, Patric defies orders. Patric is a detective, man of law. So as a “man of law” you tend to take orders very seriously, especially if your job depends on it. So defying protocol and saying “You can fire me later!” is a big deal (page 27). Patric shows initiative, bravery, and is willing to risk his life for children. How many men today would say the same?
ReplyDeleteThanos in Avengers: Infinity War said “Perfectly balanced, as all things should be”. This is Patric Duchamre’s balance, Oedipus. In lines 79-83 Oedipus tells the priest that he had done all he could, and sent his brother-in-law to go to Apollo's shrine. Oedipus lied to the priest. Oedipus could have gone to the shrine. Then that would have shown that Oedipus is willing to do anything for his people. Instead this shows that Oedipus is a lazy ruler, and a liar. The book mentions that Oepidus saved the city (lines 38-39) but now leaves it to crumble. This shows that Oepidus is a man of action, but not a leader.
Harshbarger, K. (1979). Sophocles Oedipus. Washington, D.C.: University Press of America.
Picoult, J., & Monda, C. (2007). Nineteen minutes. Prince Frederick, MD: Recorded Books.
I agree with the choice of Patrick* as a leader in Nineteen Minutes. He proves he is brave and willing to risk his life when Peter shoots up the school. One thing you could have added to your blog is a comparison to Patrick and leaders in the world today.
DeleteI also agree with Patrick being the hero in Nineteen Minutes. He went in the school to try and save everyone from the shooting without caring if he violated "protocol". I also like how you included Thanos in the discussion.
DeleteBooks can for sure teach us readers about leadership qualities and how they are different from the leaders we have today. In my novel I am reading there are a few different leaders but one in particular shows very strong leadership qualities. His name is Greg Mortenson. First of all, Mortenson has a strong desire to help the needy with many goals in mind. He saw how Pakistani children were being treated with their education and decided to do something about it. He spent many days and months trying to get all the money, tools, and supplies to build the children of Korphe schools, and didn’t stop until he accomplished his goals. Greg also goes above and beyond to help others with their dreams. Jahan said to Mortenson, “You made our village a promise once and you fulfilled it when you built our school. But you made me a promise the day the school was completed, do you remember it?” (Jahan, pg.299). She was one of the best students of Korphe schools and Mortenson knew he wanted to help her raise money for her medical classes. Greg has his own family and life but yet he decides to spend his time providing for and helping others, which shows us a huge leadership quality.
ReplyDeleteThe play we are reading in class also shows leadership qualities but that doesn’t mean there is a good leader in the play. Oedipus has a leadership role such as decision making but he doesn’t always make the best choices and tends to make choices that would help him, not others. For example, Oedipus seems very selfish and decided to defeat the Sphinx all on his own. “This you did in virtue of no knowledge we could give you, in virtue of no teaching; it was God that that aided you..” (pg12, line 36-39). I think Oedipus did it by himself without telling anyone so he could take all the gratitude for himself, which he ended up proving. “But I came, Oedipus, who knew nothing, and I stopped her. I solved the riddle by my wit alone.” (pg27, line 397-399) He wanted everyone to know he did it all by his lonesome, so everyone would praise him. Sounds pretty selfish to me. Another leadership quality in the play is helping others, which Oedipus lacks and acts selfish towards. Oedipus saw the bodies laying on the ground, very ill and in pain and says “I pity you children. You have come full of longing, but I have known the story before you told it only too well. I know you are all sick, yet there is not one of you, sick though you are, that is as sick as myself.” (pg 13, line 57-61). Obviously the dying bodies are more sick than Oedipus but he is making it about himself instead of taking action right away to help and heal them. Eventually Oedipus needs the sick people to get better so he asks the Priest to heal them and take care of it, which proves he won’t help others himself. I don’t think Oedipus cares about the people but more about power, which is not a good leadership quality.
I agree with you that Oedipus is a bad leader. Instead of helping his people himself he asks others to do it for him, or he simply prays, which is not enough. Oedipus should be down in the thick of it helping his people and doing whatever he can. Also maybe do more than one paragraph next time.
DeleteI agree with you that Oedipus was selfish! He reminds me of Beowolf partly he seems to be all about the power not about the wellbeing of the people and in the end it will be the death of them. Teiresias on page 27 line 379 even states that Oedipus will be a hurt to himself and I believe this foreshadows him being so greedy that it takes the best of him. Fabulous post overall!
DeleteI agree with what you said about how Oedipus is being selfish. He wants to defeat the Sphinx by himself and he also does not care about his people and that they are dying. A good leader would not let his people die and would also allow others to help defeat the Sphinx.
ReplyDelete@cola
DeleteI agree with what you say about Greg in your book. From what I hear, he is very selfless and has many characteristics that make him stand out as a leader. I also agree that the play does show many leadership qualities throughout it so far. I disagree with your claim about Oedipus being a terrible leader as of right now because I feel like it is too early to rule him out and yet even if bad, he still has leadership qualities in him.
ReplyDeleteBooks can’t really teach us about leaders today. Most books are dated back to different time periods so that means leadership means different things at different times. In Oedipus he shows leadership qualities by having a voice in society and working to better everyone. He is caring for everybody and is working to find justice for the last king killed. Oedipus works to help his people which is similar in today’s world but also different at the same time. Our leaders help us with better roads or keep us safe from dangerous countries. Oedipus makes sure is people eat and drink and basically live a healthy life “What do you fear or want, that you sit here suppliant? Indeed i’m willing to give all that you may need:” (pg 11 lines 10-12). In Nineteen minutes Patrick shows leader qualities. When the head officer tells him not to go into the school he ignores him and accepts whatever consequences he will face as long as he can save the kids from the school shooter. This shows him putting himself first above everyone else. Excuse the language but i'm just quoting the book, “Patrick didn’t give a damn about the Special Operations Unit. By the time the SWAT team got there, a hundred more shots might be fired; a kid might be killed. He drew his gun. “I’m going in”. “The hell you are. That’s not protocol.” “There is no fucking protocol for this,” Patrick snapped. “You can fire me later”’(Picoult, J. pg. 21). This right here just shows you how much of a leader he is. Instead of following “protocol” he went in risking his life to save others. This action also leader other officers to do the same “As he raced up the steps to the school, he was vaguely aware of two other patrol officers bucking the chief’s commands and joining him in the fray”(Picoult, J. pg.21). Along with being a leader comes followers. This is an example of that. As patrick runs into the school other officers followed to help the kids. As you see both Oedipus and Patrick have leadership qualities.
ReplyDeleteIn the book “The Ditchdigger’s Daughters, Donald (the father) has great leadership qualities. In the beginning of the book, he talks to his kids about how blac they are and that no man will come to take care of them because of it. Some may say what he said is rude, but in a different perspective, you could say that he is helping his daughters. Back in the 1960s when the book takes place, he was telling the truth. Donald was only trying to get them ready for life outside of the house when his children grow up to be young adults. Another great leadership quality the father has is determination. He went from digging ditches to eventually become a successful doctor. Becoming a doctor was the ultimate goal as a family and they all followed through. Later in the book, the father and the rest of the family makes a hit song called “Doin the Waddle”. Roulette wanted the family to go on tour but the children would have to leave school. Donald refused to take them out and said no to going on tour. That proves that he is not selfish and cares for his daughters. Really, Donald is the ideal parent. He may be stern but he knows how life works and does a great job of teaching his kids. He truly cares about his family and tells it how it is without “sugar coating” it. The greatest quality I see in Donald is his way of putting his children in tough situations and teaching them how to get out of them, teaching prime life and problem solving skills. For example, Yvonne had a plane ticket to go to the University of Michigan. She had to be on her plane for eleven in the morning. Her dad was driving to the airport and was running “late”. They got to the check-in area and the clerk said the terminal was all the way across the airport and that they would never make it. Donald and Yvonne ran to her gate, Donald gave her the ticket and said, “This is just to teach you, don’t ever let anyone tell you you can’t do something.” (Thornton, 1996, pg. 141) You guys can interpret that quote however you would like, but I think that was inspirational and proved a very good point.
ReplyDeleteIn the play “Oedipus”, Oedipus (the King of Thebes) has some great leadership qualities too. He definitely seems like he knows how to kill. To be a king, you must be relentless and assert dominance. Killing is the king of dominance. The determination he has to find the murderer of the past king is real. Oediupus may not love violence because he said that he would plainly exile the murderer if he or she would own up to their wrong doings. Now since Oedipus says that in the beginning of the book, my guess is that the murderer does not step forward and that is when the violence plays a heavy role in the play. Oedipus seems trustworthy and is well liked by Creon. Creon says, “If you will hear my news before these others I am ready to speak, or else to go within.” (Grene, 1942, line 91-92) The way Creon speaks to Oedipus gives off the idea that the king is an honorable man and is to be treated with the dearest respect. The king also has a justification for his actions. Oedipus kills people to pay for their mistakes and grieves upon the death of innocent men and women along the way. Overall, Oedipus shows respect, honorability, trust, and relentlessness. All of these examples are early in the play and I am sure that there are more to come.
I think you are mistaken. In the beginning of your blog you state that Donnald has determination because he went from digging ditches to being a doctor. Which is not true. Donnald dug ditches to help pay for his DAUGHTERS to go to school to be a doctor not himself.
DeleteMy apology hang nail. I misinterpreted the father. I have not completely finished the book yet but I thought I overheard someone in class saying that. THank you for the verification!
Deleteit is okay king Henry. The ending of the book is very good!!!
DeleteI am glad to see some optimism in today's age. You seem very friendly! Thank you for not being rude about my error, I truly appreciate it.
Delete"In the play “Oedipus”, Oedipus (the King of Thebes) has some great leadership qualities too. He definitely seems like he knows how to kill."
ReplyDeleteWhile the rest of your justification as of why Eddy is a great leader seems great to me, this bit is sort of confusing. Why should a leader (especially one as powerful as a king) need to be able to kill? I mean, if he was a soldier, that would make sense, but he isn't. He has people to do his dirty work. If I ran on a platform of being a killer, I would surely not be elected for any office today. Of course, the argument against this would be that it was much more violent back in ancient Greece. While this is true, the king still has people to do his dirty work. So, being able to kill really isn't a characteristic that a king like Eddy would need.
Does he know how to kill or does he know how to order people to kill while he sits on his butt and watches??
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Oedipus is fearless which is what he needs in order to protect his people. I also think that it is some what good that he does not prefer to kill because that shows that he values the lives of everyone, even people who probably should be punished. Even though others may say that Oedipus is not a good leader, even with the mistakes that he has made people still hold him to a highly respected standard.
ReplyDeleteI messed up I meant to reply to @KingHenry V111 ^^^
DeleteI agree with you that Donald is a leader but your post is a little confusing because you say he goes from being a ditch digger to a doctor but Donald did not become a doctor only his daughters did. He was one of the main people that pushed them to succeed and anytime that they wanted to give up they went to there dad to push them and that is why they were so successful. So yes he was successful in making his daughters doctors but not himself.
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